tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post116611229160848056..comments2023-10-31T11:37:50.028-04:00Comments on on life & other inconveniences: In My House, My RulesSandra Ruttanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06109584805469336742noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1166196835501768612006-12-15T10:33:00.000-05:002006-12-15T10:33:00.000-05:00Steve, good question, but when authors are told to...Steve, good question, but when authors are told to use the 'said' version no matter what, how do you really know?<BR/><BR/>I like the point that this comes after you've read the dialogue, usually, so if it's different than how the reader interpreted the statement it makes them reassess it. Still, I find the extra words cumbersome as a reader. I try to weed out dialogue tags from my writing now, wherever I can.<BR/><BR/>Angie, Bill is always using 'hawt' and that doesn't bug me! It's when it's a series of run-on sentences in combo with the spelling etc that I have real trouble. Part of the way we're taught to read is by shapes of words. We seldom read each physical letter unless the word is new to us or rarely used. So when people type gr8 2 c u it's shorter for them to type but just as long, if not longer, for the average person to read.<BR/><BR/>Bonnie, I don't, but I do make assumptions! And if you click on that picture and see it enlarged you'll see I don't look that sweet!Sandra Ruttanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06109584805469336742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1166159788191302752006-12-15T00:16:00.000-05:002006-12-15T00:16:00.000-05:00I'm having the same email problems, Sandra!How do ...I'm having the same email problems, Sandra!<BR/><BR/>How do you know if they're 15 years old?<BR/><BR/>...and you look so sweet, in your little picture!Bonnie S. Calhounhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11769607640246518804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1166143237400896092006-12-14T19:40:00.000-05:002006-12-14T19:40:00.000-05:00I really, really hate head-hopping. Really. Hate...I really, really hate head-hopping. Really. Hate. It. I've got a few other things that bug me like weird nouns used as verbs - thinking of S. King using "armed" as a verb - not in terms of weaponry, but as in "he armed the sweat off his face." Ewww. Just sounds weird & jolts me every time. <BR/><BR/>But head-hopping drives me nuts. It's a giant speedbump on the story road. Jolts me right out of the flow and irritates the hell out of me. Will make me stop reading entirely unless the rest of the story is pretty damn compelling.<BR/><BR/>I'm guilty of occasionally using stupid spelling in emails, mostly just for fun. I like saying/writing stuff like Yer so kewl, though too much starts to sound like I'm an idiot who doesn't understand how to speak or write correctly. Which may not be far from the truth.angiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01751466673491487048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1166137399880826272006-12-14T18:03:00.000-05:002006-12-14T18:03:00.000-05:00I only have a couple of rules at most. Basically, ...I only have a couple of rules at most. Basically, say everything as clearly as you can and do so in as few words as necessary. Be comprehensible and don't shove your reader away. I'm not so picky about grammar. My commas tends to hit sub-clauses pretty regularly, for example, but I base them entirely on where I'd want someone to pause while reading it out loud. I just want it to be as easy to read as possible.<BR/><BR/>The whole "he said quietly" vs "he whispered" thing is interesting. (They're different things, surely? 'Whispered' implies intent and secrecy?). It seems strange, on reflection, that adverbs are so avoided, because saying something quietly is a perfectly reasonable thing for someone to do. But I guess some adverbs sound more absurd than others, and it's better to be safe than sorry.<BR/><BR/>For me, one of the main problems with dialogue tags is that they generally come <I>after</I> the dialogue. So the reader has gone through the dialogue, heard it in their head, and then suddenly they're being told "he whispered" (or whatever) afterwards. If that's not how they read it, they trip up. If they see "he said", they just skip over it - they already know that from the speech marks. Some dialogue tags, if you need to, you can get away with a lot better by putting them in first.<BR/><BR/>My personal irritants are where someone hisses something that has no sibilants in it (how?) and - a bit obscure this - when a foreign character manages enormously complex sentences in English and then says "Au revoir", or something. It's like hanging a label on them saying "Did you notice that I'm meant to be French?".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1166129130536724742006-12-14T15:45:00.000-05:002006-12-14T15:45:00.000-05:00I'm having a hard enough time chewing on my lunch....I'm having a hard enough time chewing on my lunch. He grumbled.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1166128135624966602006-12-14T15:28:00.000-05:002006-12-14T15:28:00.000-05:00"fckn idjutshaffa nitpik prrrtt vreetin fok," she ..."fckn idjutshaffa nitpik prrrtt vreetin fok," she muttered.<BR/><BR/>Chew on that. And I'm not explaining it either!Sandra Ruttanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06109584805469336742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1166126384503196452006-12-14T14:59:00.000-05:002006-12-14T14:59:00.000-05:00Well that's the thing, as Bill points out. Explain...Well that's the thing, as Bill points out. Explaining the dialogue is like explaining the joke.<BR/><BR/>Adverbs are your enemy.<BR/><BR/>Well, my enemy, anyway.John McFetridgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09442198820998606682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1166125695603705882006-12-14T14:48:00.000-05:002006-12-14T14:48:00.000-05:00"I wonder if they can hear me muttering," he said ..."I wonder if they can hear me muttering," he said in a mutterly way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1166124122469141842006-12-14T14:22:00.000-05:002006-12-14T14:22:00.000-05:00James, you're entitled to your POV. I think this ...James, you're entitled to your POV. I think this is one of the most common mistakes I made in my early work, and I'm mindful of it now. If you're going to make a switch, there needs to be a clear baton pass, so it's obvious POV is transferring. Nothing more jarring than thinking you're in one person's head and finding out two paragraphs you aren't.<BR/><BR/>Bill, I agree with you as well. Sometimes when I read, "he said quietly" I think, "JUST SAY WHISPERED!" Or murmured, or whatever!<BR/><BR/>But sometimes the editor will make the author change it as well. I was told by someone I was lazy for using murmured and words other than said. Personally, I disagree.Sandra Ruttanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06109584805469336742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1166123748796957902006-12-14T14:15:00.000-05:002006-12-14T14:15:00.000-05:00I'm persnickety about POV management myself, thoug...I'm persnickety about POV management myself, though I'll tolerate a little sloppiness if I like the story otherwise. I generally find attempts at full-omniscient to be the hardest to take, because I find it functions as a free pass to insert "oh by the way" information mid-stream more often than not. I especially hate paragraphs in which I see the thoughts of different characters. Some writers are better at it than others, of course, but mostly I see it as an easy way out.<BR/><BR/>I don't mind writer words when used judiciously. A novel that uses nothing but "said" will stand out to me as a novel that uses nothing but "said". Which, I would guess, is probably not the big takeaway the writer wants.<BR/><BR/>Sometimes the flow of the language is best served by use of "declared" or "replied," though I admit that I've never seen a convincing use of "averred." I don't want to see writer words just to see them, but a writer word is sometimes the right word. Just like, sometimes, an adverb is the right word. Just keep it under control.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1166122676953903422006-12-14T13:57:00.000-05:002006-12-14T13:57:00.000-05:00I get annoyed with writers who can't keep on top o...I get annoyed with writers who can't keep on top of point of view - or maybe don't want to. But that is a well-documented bug-bear of mine, and since Val McDermid does it in the book I'm reading at the moment, I should probably shut up about it. Nothing annoys me enough to never read an author again except that they write a dull, unreadable book.<BR/><BR/>And damn. Is it too late to get Ninja Ducks sent over here?JamesOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09332376784689207703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1166120454435550772006-12-14T13:20:00.000-05:002006-12-14T13:20:00.000-05:00Bill, I am the embodiment of generosity!John, I ag...Bill, I am the embodiment of generosity!<BR/><BR/>John, I agree with you. When it comes to dialogue or narrative thought, it's a different ballpark. But just being lazy to be lazy in emails, posts, what have you... and I say that as someone who typically doesn't edit their blog posts, although if I notice whoppers later I'll change them. Or fix broken links or whatever. I'm not saying people have to be obsessive about perfection but when I see authors post on discussion groups/forums with no semblance of sentence structure it drives me mad.<BR/><BR/>That said, there will undoubtedly be errors in my first book. Because the one thing I've learned is that you can never edit yourself enough. I can't believe what sneaks by...Sandra Ruttanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06109584805469336742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1166119855367487552006-12-14T13:10:00.000-05:002006-12-14T13:10:00.000-05:00What turns me off an author is slavish following o...What turns me off an author is slavish following of rules. I like books where the characters tell their own stories - and most characters aren't english lit grads.<BR/><BR/>I don't like "writer words" where there should be character words.<BR/><BR/>When I got my first ms back from the editor a lot of changes were suggested. Among them was using things other than, "said." I've never had anyone tell me a story and use anything other than said. No one has ever said, "So, Eddie and Bill walked into the room, and Bill declared, 'What are you doing here?' and Susie replied, 'Nothing.'" The editor suggested the changes, "for variety." That seemed like a creative writing class idea to me, for variety; not for clarity, or for voice.<BR/><BR/>Anything other than 'said' is a "writer word."<BR/><BR/>But yeah, the crappy email spelling and grammar drive me nuts, too.John McFetridgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09442198820998606682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1166119473159764452006-12-14T13:04:00.000-05:002006-12-14T13:04:00.000-05:00Oh, and the android? I couldn't tell due to that H...Oh, and the android? I couldn't tell due to that Hello Kitty sweatshirt.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1166119371767550182006-12-14T13:02:00.000-05:002006-12-14T13:02:00.000-05:0015 years old? Generous.15 years old? Generous.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1166118345816660002006-12-14T12:45:00.000-05:002006-12-14T12:45:00.000-05:00Sad thing is, Norby, I don't have large chunks of ...Sad thing is, Norby, I don't have large chunks of free time! I've been having an email problem where things download twice or bounce back to senders and, well, I'm generally going nuts. I just need the odd stress relief!Sandra Ruttanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06109584805469336742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1166117657640062032006-12-14T12:34:00.000-05:002006-12-14T12:34:00.000-05:00Obviously, you should not be allowed to have large...Obviously, you should not be allowed to have large chunks of free time.<BR/><BR/>I ordered the camo ninja ducks for my husband. norbyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com