tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post114908321571092080..comments2023-10-31T11:37:50.028-04:00Comments on on life & other inconveniences: Because Sometimes Kids Just KillSandra Ruttanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06109584805469336742noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1152990448821897392006-07-15T15:07:00.000-04:002006-07-15T15:07:00.000-04:00Hello Friend! I just came across your blog and wan...Hello Friend! I just came across your blog and wanted to<BR/>drop you a note telling you how impressed I was with <BR/>the information you have posted here.<BR/>Keep up the great work, you are providing a great resource on the Internet here!<BR/>If you have a moment, please make a visit to my <A HREF="http://www.pet-center.ws" REL="nofollow">treadwell pet products</A> site.<BR/>Good luck in your endeavors!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1149152472659464232006-06-01T05:01:00.000-04:002006-06-01T05:01:00.000-04:00Back in the day, the TV news used to end with an u...Back in the day, the TV news used to end with an upbeat story - a talking dog or suchlike. That doesn't seem to happen anymore. It seems to me that the reason for this is we like to see and hear all the bad shit. It probably explains why horror/slasher movies are so popular too. I'd guess that on the simplest level, we like to read and hear of other peoples' real or imaginary misfortune because it makes our own misery seem more acceptable in contrast - we are comforted by the knowledge that someone, somewhere, has a more shitty time of it than us.<BR/><BR/>The problems start when kids see this representation of reality that's skewed to the bad and accept it as normal. Thus begins the downward spiral, which we've been on since that first ever television news broadcast - or probably since Pathe started showing newsreels of war footage at the movies.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, life for the vast majority of children today is a picnic compared with the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. Then childhood ended as soon as you were old enough to fit up a chimney or under the machinery in the mill.JamesOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09332376784689207703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1149149642513036592006-06-01T04:14:00.000-04:002006-06-01T04:14:00.000-04:00Sandra, the movie was MINORITY REPORT. It shows th...Sandra, the movie was MINORITY REPORT. It shows that Cruise and Spielberg can do good work when they bother.<BR/><BR/>Personally, I think there is always a combination of nature vs. nurture plus the added factor of personal will or choice in everything we do. Genetics only gives us ranges of potential.<BR/><BR/>But with the serial killer thing, my gut feeling is that genetics has a lot more to do with it.Daniel Hatadihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00453583064175651509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1149148942137091752006-06-01T04:02:00.000-04:002006-06-01T04:02:00.000-04:00Many good points. Parents often are the biggest in...Many good points. Parents often are the biggest influence on a child, for better or worse, and a problem child who grows up doesn't automatically learn responsibility as an adult. They have a kid. The kid goes off the rails. The parent is unable to deal with them, however much society wishes they would.<BR/><BR/>With regard to the media's contribution to all this, a few years ago I wrote a post on the 'Werther Effect' which offers a different perspective beyond the media's capacity to exaggerate the prevalence of bad news:<BR/><BR/>http://dragonsfandango.blogspot.com/2004/07/werther-effect.htmlVincent Holland-Keenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13620266525944160618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1149142801558523312006-06-01T02:20:00.000-04:002006-06-01T02:20:00.000-04:00Children learn as they live. They live what they l...Children learn as they live. They live what they learn.<BR/><BR/>It's corny. But true.<BR/><BR/>Parents are a tremendous influence. Also corny. But true.<BR/><BR/>So, parents. Put it together. What the kid watches on TV, in the movie theaters, plays on the computer, reads in books matters. How he's taught to handle conflict matters.Mindy Tarquinihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02970872751327021013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1149131811421603702006-05-31T23:16:00.000-04:002006-05-31T23:16:00.000-04:00Andrea, I've also wondered about the media's role ...Andrea, I've also wondered about the media's role in this. I used to be a tv news producer, and the industry has a talent for latching onto the "hot" story of the month. We've seen it time and again with shark attacks and church fires. Everyone gets the impression that these events are happening in greater frequency, but once the numbers are added up, you find they haven't. What's changed is that the news has discovered their viewers find this stuff interesting and thus cover it every chance they get.<BR/><BR/>The news spends time arguing whether movies and video games influence these kids, but they're never willing to place themselves under the microscope. Some of these kids are out for the attention... so to see the national news obsessing over Columbine and other events sends the message that this WILL get them noticed. It's things like this that got me out of that business... a decision I'll probably never regret.Bill, the Wildcathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16137557955170758994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1149128542846816962006-05-31T22:22:00.000-04:002006-05-31T22:22:00.000-04:00Great interview. I found the careful investigation...Great interview. I found the careful investigation he does of myth versus truth really interesting. Take for example child abductions. THere are fewer now than when I was a kid, but the perception is that it is far more dangerous. The media and their pursuit of a story versus news is a large part of this. Carry on Trench!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1149127500213517172006-05-31T22:05:00.000-04:002006-05-31T22:05:00.000-04:00LOL Angie! Every time my husband goes out and the...LOL Angie! Every time my husband goes out and then there's a fire, I start to wonder...Sandra Ruttanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06109584805469336742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1149127346067815162006-05-31T22:02:00.000-04:002006-05-31T22:02:00.000-04:00Actually, there have been some studies (wish I cou...Actually, there have been some studies (wish I could be more specific, but I can't remember who conducted them) re. genetic predispositions between arsonists and firefighters. (Ducks and runs...not saying yer hubby is a firebug, I swear!) Basically, the studies suggested a shared genetic propensity for a fascination with fire. How this propensity was EXPRESSED was grounded in the individual's upbringing, or the "nurture" side of the equation & other personality traits. We all have tons of predispositions that are expressed in different ways, but the power of genetics to influence behavior is kinda scary. <BR/><BR/>Genetic predispositions tend to be oversimplified. The possible combinations are tremendous. I have a feeling that the answers to some of the bigger questions will fall at some bizarre crossroads of genetics, brain chemistry, and nurture. The simple fact of the matter, is that "love" alone is not the answer. Sad, but true.angiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01751466673491487048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1149126444131463642006-05-31T21:47:00.000-04:002006-05-31T21:47:00.000-04:00Ah, LOL Daniel! I'm not sure I have the answers. ...Ah, LOL Daniel! I'm not sure I have the answers. I mean, what if it was like that Tom Cruise movie that I've forgotten the name of, that you could see ahead and essentially convict people for crimes they hadn't committed? It's scary. We'd all like to think there's a gene we could isolate that would tell us "this is a dangerous person" but I think there are so many factors. Temperment. Choice. Nurture... we could debate this for ever. Well, haven't people been debating this since the dawn of time?Sandra Ruttanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06109584805469336742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1149125289212378232006-05-31T21:28:00.000-04:002006-05-31T21:28:00.000-04:00Yes, great post and interview, Sandra. And for tha...Yes, great post and interview, Sandra. And for that matter, the comments section is filled with excellent reading material.<BR/><BR/>One thing that fascinates me is the nature vs. nurture issue.<BR/><BR/>If we could say that a child has a genetic defect that makes them a serial killer, how would you bring them up so as to avoid it? <BR/><BR/>What would it take to trigger them? <BR/><BR/>Can the urge to kill be directed elsewhere?<BR/><BR/>These, and many more questions, will be answered in next week's episode of Life And Other Inconveniences.<BR/><BR/>Stay tuned.Daniel Hatadihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00453583064175651509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1149124098750093772006-05-31T21:08:00.000-04:002006-05-31T21:08:00.000-04:00It seems to me as though violence by children has ...It seems to me as though violence by children has increased since I was a child but maybe that's a perception given by the media. But I do know children are getting older faster than they used to be. They used to be able to be children for longer than they seem to be today. One of my daughter's teachers said the same thing that behavior from the girls that she used to see start at the end of 5th grade now occurs at the end of 3rd grade....this was in reference to my daughter who wasn't heading in that direction yet. I think children are bombarded by so much more violence, sex and mature themes in the news, advertising, movies, tv, games than they used to be. They show so much more on tv than they used to without any warnings either...sex and violence. Anyone seen a soap opera recently...I don't watch them but I've passed by them and they are loaded with sex and adult themes. If parents aren't aware of what their children are watching their children are probably getting an eyefull. And yes it's up to parents to be aware of what their children are being exposed to but I think in this day and age with both parents working it's hard. That's one reason I chose to stay home with my children rather than return to work...I didn't want someone else raising my children. But it's a tough choice financially.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07592231080156766441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1149124008594531262006-05-31T21:06:00.000-04:002006-05-31T21:06:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Spinetingler Magazine: Online Reviewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13070066346540013985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1149123835056367192006-05-31T21:03:00.001-04:002006-05-31T21:03:00.001-04:00Oh, and Bonnie? Unfortunately, you're likely righ...Oh, and Bonnie? Unfortunately, you're likely right.Sandra Ruttanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06109584805469336742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1149123807105852152006-05-31T21:03:00.000-04:002006-05-31T21:03:00.000-04:00Aw Angie, thanks. And I understand some of where ...Aw Angie, thanks. And I understand some of where you're coming from. I worked with a child with oppositional defiance disorder, amongst other issues. He actually put me into the hospital, and other staff, and he was only 5. But when he got into a fit, he was so strong, and he picked up a solid wooden block (the kind kids build with) and beat his aide over the head with it.<BR/><BR/>I had to get out because I was at the end of my rope. It just feels so hopeless sometimes. Such a big problem to address.<BR/><BR/>I wish whatever that elusive resiliency factor was, we could find a way to tap it in everyone...Sandra Ruttanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06109584805469336742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1149123558942205012006-05-31T20:59:00.000-04:002006-05-31T20:59:00.000-04:00The majority of these kids are not strangers to th...The majority of these kids are not strangers to the police or other social support systems. Columbine is a prime example of this. They knew there were serious problems and basically did the bare minimum. As we all know, it wasn't enough.<BR/><BR/>The systems are just as sick as the families and kids. I am not suggesting that it is the police's responsibility to magically know when parents are checked out. I am saying that I know of too many cases where it is a well known fact that the family situation is completely toxic (usually from frequent contact with the police & Child Protective Services) and the kids are sent back again and again. People (friends, neighbors, teachers, etc.) know when things are going south and often say and do nothing.<BR/><BR/>The last straw for me was when a kid I worked with was getting sent back home to live with a grandmother who had taken in the kid's cousin. This cousin was "on the run" from a group of drug dealers he had ripped off & who had threatened to kill the entire family. These are the folks perfectly capable of doing just that and had already assaulted 2 other family members for being related to the cousin. The cousin's brother is in prison for murdering a girl whose body was found buried behind another of the kid's family member's house. The family of the murdered girl has put out death threats against everyone in the kid's family, including her as they believe she knew something about it - and she probably did. The kid's mother was living with a drug dealer nearby. The entire family is "on the run." And the placing agency and facility sent this 13 y.o. girl back to that shit, even though they all knew about it. This is what drives me up the fucking wall.<BR/><BR/>I know there are no easy answers. I know that some kids grow up in horrible environments and manage to do okay, or even thrive. Who can say how much of this is that elusive resiliency factor, personality, whatever? I've got family members with mental health issues - my grandfather was hospitalized for depression & abused alcohol. Most folks have a family member who has struggled with some form of mental health problem. I think you rock for being the person you are, regardless of your personal background. Yeah, Sandra Ruttan rocks- not because of the shit you went through, but for being who you are & saying what's on your mind & doing the thing. <BR/><BR/>And I'm not kidding about my stance on taking responsibility. I have no "rescuer" illusions. Until an individual is willing and able to stand up and take responsibility for themselves and their actions, I have no respect for them. And yes, this absolutely has to happen, but when is the "some point?" At 11y.o.? 12? 13? 14? This is something that has to be taught, and if you don't get it from your parents, you get it somewhere else. The only factor besides resiliency that points to kids in rotten circumstances coming out okay is the presence of a mentor - anyone from a teacher, neighbor, family friend, relative whatever - that provides some measure of support, guidance and validation. So it's not so much about "social support" as it is about us humans acting like we give a shit about each other.<BR/><BR/>All I'm saying is that when you're talking about kids, you're talking about a long-term impact on the community. These kids grow up and have kids of their own and the cycle continues. Or someone steps in - sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but ya gotta try. At least I do. Just not professionally, any more!angiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01751466673491487048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1149122103290058232006-05-31T20:35:00.000-04:002006-05-31T20:35:00.000-04:00Very sobering thoughts about a situation that is c...Very sobering thoughts about a situation that is clearly out of control.<BR/><BR/>Consider the violence children are bombarded with on TV and in video games and comic books; coupled with parents who either won't or arent able to pay attention to their children...and you have an explosive situation.<BR/><BR/>I can't see it getting any better, any time soon!Bonnie S. Calhounhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11769607640246518804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1149121279770264222006-05-31T20:21:00.000-04:002006-05-31T20:21:00.000-04:00Angie, I do agree with you that if the parents don...Angie, I do agree with you that if the parents don't want to parent, it would be nice if someone else did step in. I think that everyone would agree that support systems in place are an asset, it's just that part of the reason these tragedies happen is because people rely on someone else to do their job for them.<BR/><BR/>And how are the police, or anyone, for that matter, supposed to know that so-and-so's parent has gone on a mental vacation and it's time to step in?<BR/><BR/>I say this as someone who's grandfather died in a mental institution, who put her own mother in the same mental institution (diagnoed bipolar and medicated) and I've been diagnosed bipolar and never medicated. At some point, people also have to take responsibility for themselves. My home life wasn't sunshine and roses as a kid and it never occurred to me to go get a gun to solve my problems, and I do find it curious - what makes one person consider that an option, and another person not?<BR/><BR/>It's complex. Frustrating. No easy answers.<BR/><BR/>We've had school shootings in Canada, but hardly anyone even knows the names of them, so there's no point me mentioning them either. Sadly.Sandra Ruttanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06109584805469336742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1149120019247459572006-05-31T20:00:00.000-04:002006-05-31T20:00:00.000-04:00I get a little nervous when folks start throwing a...I get a little nervous when folks start throwing around the whole "sociopath" label, or psychopath, for that matter. Kids (male and female) kill, rape, rob, and do all sorts of nasty unthinkable things. Actually, a more accurate dx would probably be antisocial personality disorder, and it's more rare than you would think. I've only met one in the ten years or so I worked in the behavioral health field (primarily with kids, two years at a residential facility w/mostly court ordered treatment for all of the stuff mentioned above & more). Oh yeah, and she was a scary, scary kid. Zero conscience, zero empathy, zero sense of responsibility for her actions. And yes, the freakin' legal system should lock her ass up and throw away the key, and I'm willing to bet they won't until she finally succeeds in killing someone (already arrested for attempted murder once, multiple assault charges). <BR/><BR/>I wish it were so simple as to say "it's the parents" or "it's society" or "it's the trauma of whatever abuse happened to so-and-so" or "it's because this person has x mental illness." There aren't any easy answers. It's usually a bitch's brew of all of the above. Who knows what tipped who over the edge? The kids usually don't. The professionals are guessing or deluding themselves into believing they have the real answer. <BR/><BR/>I don't know tons about school shootings, but I have worked with kids who made threats (bomb, guns, etc) to schoolmates & teachers. In my community there is a specific program designed to target these kids for behavioral health intervention in an effort to avert a tragedy like Columbine. And it's pretty fuckin' sad that that's the one that everyone remembers when there have been so many, all over the U.S. <BR/><BR/>And you can blame the lefties for wanting to rehabilitate these criminals - but these are kids, dammit. It's hard to throw in the towel when a kid's thirteen, bipolar, living in an abusive/alchoholic home & has zero social skills, much less emotion regulation skills. Thirteen. Years. Old. I am not making excuses. I am stating facts. I do not subscribe to the "victim" mentality - most of these kids have tremendous gifts that are overshadowed by their deficits, but we all have to learn how to co-exist and take responsibility for our actions. And people, I'm sorry if the parents are willing or able to teach their kids that important stuff, but if they're not doing it, somebody damn well better.<BR/><BR/>I am a firm believer in actions and consequences. I also am a firm believer that unless we step up to the plate, we're all going to paying for this bullshit in more than just dollars and blood. When bullying is tolerated - by teachers, parents, community members - we are teaching our kids that whoever is the most violent and/or aggressive will be allowed to do whatever the fuck they want. Do bullies end up in jail, or whatever? Not as often as they should. <BR/><BR/>Okay, I'm totally ranting here. This topic touches a really raw nerve with me. I've seen so many damaged kids that we fail time after time after time that I want to pull my fucking hair out (an entirely separate DSMIV diagnosis, BTW!). And I hate it. And I'm stopping before my blood pressure goes kablooey. Reason number 643 why I quit my day job - I do not want to be a bald angry lady. I believe Sinead O'Connor already cornered the marked on that one.angiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01751466673491487048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1149113858061259692006-05-31T18:17:00.000-04:002006-05-31T18:17:00.000-04:00Maybe you've just always been an attentive, respon...Maybe you've just always been an attentive, responsible dad?! I think you're an awesome dad! But then, I know how much effort you put into finding the right birthday present. For your daughter, not for me. Sniff.<BR/><BR/>And yes, a definite tick in the "good things" column. XO.Sandra Ruttanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06109584805469336742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1149111185554187022006-05-31T17:33:00.000-04:002006-05-31T17:33:00.000-04:00My dear Kim, I'm glad you feel at home with this t...My dear Kim, I'm glad you feel at home with this topic. Your views are always welcome here - my word, seems we've been friends for ages! Long before the blog, certainly.<BR/><BR/>And I think you and Andrea have really added to this with your insights as parents. It's a very good point that it isn't possible to be best friends with your children when they're young, but certainly it's nice to be friends with them when they're older.<BR/><BR/>And the fine line between stifling and protecting... You know, this is why I'm cautious on the whole parenting thing. I'm not a parent, but I do have some appreciation for how hard it is. I think the key here is that good parents take their role very seriously and most importantly, don't shut their eyes to what's going on.Sandra Ruttanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06109584805469336742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1149102425718378402006-05-31T15:07:00.000-04:002006-05-31T15:07:00.000-04:00I agree with Bill I don't want to stifle my childr...I agree with Bill I don't want to stifle my children but at the same time I want to protect them and instill good values in them. And how some parents can let their children get away with anything boggles the mind. I've seen little kids 7/8 years old talking back to their parents in the most awful way and their parents don't do anything. And then my children have to go to school with children like them. Just scary.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07592231080156766441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1149102139300426972006-05-31T15:02:00.000-04:002006-05-31T15:02:00.000-04:00Sandra quite a thought provoking post and intervie...Sandra quite a thought provoking post and interview. I have two children and it's at times a scary world we live in. You pretty much worry constantly. When my oldest was in 1st grade there was a boy who was suspended for a few days...we are talking 1st grade here. And I do feel parents need to step up and know what their children are doing and getting into. Monitor their computer activity, don't let they watch R movies (i've seen 3 year olds in R rated movies...what's up with that?), and keep them away from violent video games. It's even hard with tv now there is so much sex and violence on tv you have to monitor what they are watching. Even some of the "kids" shows are ultra violent. At times I feel like I'm overprotective about my children but I also feel like other parents just don't know what their children are doing. It's a scary world and parenting doesn't come with any instructions....so you are never sure you are making the right decisions so you just do the best you can.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07592231080156766441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1149101592637164782006-05-31T14:53:00.000-04:002006-05-31T14:53:00.000-04:00Oh, and anyone who hasn't read your recent psychop...Oh, and anyone who hasn't read your recent psychopath post really should, Trace! Scary stuff.<BR/><BR/>Bill, it is baffling that parents don't take responsibility. Of course, you need to get a license to drive but any fool can have a baby...<BR/><BR/>Trench, thank you, and I'm glad the response has been positive. You have a balanced, insightful blog, very interesting. You should be commended for your efforts to bring awareness to sensitive topics.Sandra Ruttanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06109584805469336742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18499463.post-1149101406137986602006-05-31T14:50:00.000-04:002006-05-31T14:50:00.000-04:00I do fall into the camp of "bad parenting" being t...I do fall into the camp of "bad parenting" being to blame. I faced a bully or two in my time as a kid, but my parents instilled a respect (perhaps fear?) of the law. The most I ever did was hit/kick back to defend myself, and that was a very rare thing.<BR/><BR/>Working in a 911 center for the past four years has only reinforced my opinion. It truly baffles me how many parents seem to want the police to raise their children. It's truly shocking to see someone who is perhaps only 15-years-old already listed in more than a dozen police reports.<BR/><BR/>Now that I am a parent, I often worry about this kind of thing. I'm probably never going to be my kids' best friend, and I don't really expect to be. Knowing just how far to stick my nose into my kids' business, even when my oldest is only six, already troubles me.Bill, the Wildcathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16137557955170758994noreply@blogger.com